Is Ice a Catalyst for Life Throughout the Universe? »
Posted by: cactushair 2 months, 2 weeks ago187 Comments Report this Story
The unusual properties of frozen water may have been the ticket that made life possible. If correct, this would not only answer how life arose on our planet, but would dramatically change how we search for life in the Solar System and beyond.
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Dicax_Maximus2 months, 2 weeks ago
Possibilities for "life" on Mars (and I'm NOT talking about little green men)......
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Endoscopy2 months, 1 week ago
ROTFLMAO
The EXTREME complexity of a "simple" single cell organism is immense. They keep going round and round about what came first and always shoot down each in turn. DNA, RNA, proteins, protein engines, special fluids, cell walls, etc. all have to come together absolutely correct or there will be no life. This is the hurdle no one has overcome. And I bet no one will.
The proteins and other chemicals have to be made without oxygen present but the organism requires oxygen immediately. This is a second hurdle to overcome.
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Tangent0012 months, 1 week ago
Actually arriving at a self-replicating molecule is the first 'step'. A self-replicator can be as simple as a strand of six DNA nucleotides. These molecules are then subject to the forces of evolution, in that they can mutate, join to form chains, etc. to form increasingly more complex molecules.
The first organic molecules and then single-cell organisms arose in an anoxic environment. Later, early life favored organisms that consumed oxygen. 'Tis no hurdle at all.
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Endoscopy2 months, 1 week ago
And you have demonstrated this how. Everything I read says they keep rejecting each concept of what came first. The real problem is that all are needed at the same time.
And how does your theory get along with entropy? Things going from the more complex to the more simple without outside help.
This "first organic molecules" is created how since there is nothing organic at this time?
According to your theory if you were told that a place where you were going to walk nobody had gone there before. And as you walked you picked up a diamond encrusted Rolex you would say, "Look at what nature created." Those molecules you are talking about are as complex as that watch if not more so.
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Tangent0012 months, 1 week ago
Yep. Theoretically, silicon is a possibility, as is a phosphorus and nitrogen combo.
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Mutainia2 months, 1 week ago
IF actual life came into existence this way, well, for Creationists, it would be "chilling". But, hey, what happened to the notion of "Panspermia" that Dawkins proposed, or, is this it?
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smithichie2 months, 1 week ago
I am not aware of Dawkins supporting the ancient idea of Panspermia, Fred Hoyle has been a recent advocate, although I wouldn't be surprised if Dawkins has raised the possiblity. The notion has been around for some time and I would say this just gives it more support.
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Mutainia2 months, 1 week ago
So, IF life on earth came into existence from space (surviving burn up), THAT means, that, IF there is no Creator, complex molecules formed when they were dashed and jumbled about in hot sea vents on some oTHER planet, and, given time time, weathering, and entropy, they became MORE complex THROUGH such weathering to the point where it all came to life. But, the planet went Krypton, exploding the life out into space. Such entropy and weathering evolved the life further and further still (by going through our atmosphere). To quote Wiley E Coyote over such a notion... "GENIUS!!!" :)
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Coatl2 months, 1 week ago
Actually one of the ideas of panspermia is that life's origin could be in space. But it's just an idea, althought, this discovery about ice could make it more probable.
Althought there are many ideas of panspermia arround, being the most popluar "Aliens did it".
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smithichie2 months, 1 week ago
When it comes to hypothesizing about the origins of life on Earth, I have usually focused on other ideas besides panspermia because I have thought it just puts off answering the obvious question of how non-life became life, but it may be panspermia is part of that process. There's an awful lot of ice floating around our solar system and it's been here since before the planets began to form.
As for aliens, without any evidence, it's no different than inserting a god or any magical character. IMO
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Mutainia2 months, 1 week ago
The idea of space aliens bringing life to earth is catching on BIG time. Since it doesn't seem to involve morals and ethics, I'm thinking a lot a Atheists will probably jump ship and swim to it such a belief themselves. The notion of life EVER being too complex to form on earth by itself and forming in a more hospitable environment, like, say, inside a commet, (as Smithichie proposes), allowing it to then evolve into an intelligent being that would BRING life to earth by ship, possibly, SEEMS to be where it's at for many now. Of course, that still seems like Sky Fairies to me, though. Like an atheist asking "where did God come from", you are left with "where did life producing comets come from"? Comets may or may not contain complex molecules. To have it turn into life, again, seems miraculous.
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smithichie2 months, 1 week ago
Not necessarily hydrothermal vents, but yes, it may very well be that life is inevitable as a water cycle, given the correct conditions.
Like Coatl below, I too am interested in hearing what you mean when you talk about entropy, I thought I had pointed out the obvious, that the Earth was not a closed system.
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CF/CF001.html
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Mutainia2 months, 1 week ago
Here you go: Losing energy. A clock running down. Loss of heat. "Weathering". Aging. "Banging around on sea floors". The fact that order has a tendency to become DIS-organized with time. The velveteen rabbit losing hair with play. Rubber becoming brittle. Batteries losing their charge. THAT to me, is entropy. But, hey, if you think a wind up toy can wind itself up again, without human interaction, tell me again you don't have faith.
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smithichie2 months, 1 week ago
Entropy is not the same as disorder. Entropy can produce order, as cited in the link I provided above.
In your analogy of the wind up toy, the human is merely an energy source, easily replacable with any number of energy sources, like solar, chemical or radioactive.
Faith is a positive assertion. I have made no positive assertions that aren't backed up with evidence, while discussing possible orgins of life.
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